Should additional stats be used?

[JetsGM (Jacob)]

Before the league starts, I figured I'd throw up a poll to see if anyone feels strongly that additional stats should be scored. My thought process was to keep stats attached to higher impact events (that are officially tracked).

My thoughts on some of the currently excluded stats:

PIMs: I left PIMs off because I find leagues award them as a positive award when they really are a negative impact on a player. Players in this league who are gritty will rack up hits and blocks. Always weird when a guy gets a misconduct and puts up more points than a skater who has a couple of points in a game.

+/-: Find this stat arbitrary, but I know there's a ton of leagues that track it, if we want to attach a small amount of value to it, I'd be flexible with it. Can adjust the re-sign rubric accordingly.

Powerplay points: Not a fan, don't think a player should get bonus points for scoring on a man advantage, only further separates the top players (who are already at the top) from the rest of the pack.

Shorthanded points: Considered implementing this one, but decided against it. Could add a small bonus for any SHG/SHA a player puts up.

Game-Winning Goals: Another stat I'm not a huge fan of. Wanted to add overtime goals as a stat, but it's a premium only stat in Fantrax, so can't use it.

Other stats:
- Hat trick: Bonus points for when a skater scores a hat trick in a game
- Giveaways: Small deduction of points every time a player gives the puck away
- Takeaways: Small amount of points awarded when a player takes the puck away

[Deleted]

Shorthanded points would be nice stat-category. It would add little value to unappreciated penalty killers.

[Deleted]

I agree with your take on +/- for sure and with the limited stat's tracked agree on the PIMS as well. H+B make up for grit, pims I like but only if there are deeper scoring stats.

PPP is a stable stat and is the one here I feel deserves to be added in.

[Smashville / PredsGM]

I'm not a huge fan of the faceoff stats.

[JetsGM (Jacob)]

Aug 20, 2016 21:41:38 GMT -5 Smashville / PredsGM said:

I'm not a huge fan of the faceoff stats.

Didn't really want to remove any stats, but I'm curious to hear why you don't like them included? Faceoff stats have become a huge topic in the NHL and guys who are good at faceoffs do see slightly boosted value around the league.

[Deleted]

I like Gwg

[Smashville / PredsGM]

Aug 21, 2016 18:34:54 GMT -5 JetsGM (Jacob) said:

Aug 20, 2016 21:41:38 GMT -5 Smashville / PredsGM said:

I'm not a huge fan of the faceoff stats.

Didn't really want to remove any stats, but I'm curious to hear why you don't like them included? Faceoff stats have become a huge topic in the NHL and guys who are good at faceoffs do see slightly boosted value around the league.

For one it's a stat that doesn't apply to every skater position. I just feel like it diminishes the value of wingers as they're likely to lose more than 50% of their faceoffs when called upon. Right now we're basically saying outside of Kane, Bergeron is the best skater in the league (based on fp/g). That doesn't sound right to me.

Just my opinion though. I feel like the rest of the scoring is pretty much bang on though.

[Deleted]

Aug 23, 2016 0:45:37 GMT -5 Smashville / PredsGM said:

Aug 21, 2016 18:34:54 GMT -5 JetsGM (Jacob) said:

Didn't really want to remove any stats, but I'm curious to hear why you don't like them included? Faceoff stats have become a huge topic in the NHL and guys who are good at faceoffs do see slightly boosted value around the league.

For one it's a stat that doesn't apply to every skater position. I just feel like it diminishes the value of wingers as they're likely to lose more than 50% of their faceoffs when called upon. Right now we're basically saying outside of Kane, Bergeron is the best skater in the league (based on fp/g). That doesn't sound right to me.

Just my opinion though. I feel like the rest of the scoring is pretty much bang on though.

Bergeron is one of the best two way forwards in the game who's won multiple Selke's, he might be understated in terms of flash but in the real nhl centers like him are very rare.  In terms of fantasy hockey I think that adding in PPP will add in the scoring balance your looking for in the scoring forwards like ovy, etc.  One thing we could do if people are concerned about fow losses for wingers is simply use FOW-C which is an option we use in one of my fantrax leagues.  FOW's are such a critical part of the game, they can win or lose games and championships just as much as a key goal or huge save.  

It's actually in my best interests to not have fow/fol scored lol, my guys suck in their percentages.  I do tend to agree we should consolidate it into one stat FOW-C, add PPP and see if any of the other scoring cat's gain support, which would add some power to those wingers

[Smashville / PredsGM]

Aug 23, 2016 1:31:05 GMT -5 @stars said:

Aug 23, 2016 0:45:37 GMT -5 Smashville / PredsGM said:

For one it's a stat that doesn't apply to every skater position. I just feel like it diminishes the value of wingers as they're likely to lose more than 50% of their faceoffs when called upon. Right now we're basically saying outside of Kane, Bergeron is the best skater in the league (based on fp/g). That doesn't sound right to me.

Just my opinion though. I feel like the rest of the scoring is pretty much bang on though.

Bergeron is one of the best two way forwards in the game who's won multiple Selke's, he might be understated in terms of flash but in the real nhl centers like him are very rare.  In terms of fantasy hockey I think that adding in PPP will add in the scoring balance your looking for in the scoring forwards like ovy, etc.  One thing we could do if people are concerned about fow losses for wingers is simply use FOW-C which is an option we use in one of my fantrax leagues.  FOW's are such a critical part of the game, they can win or lose games and championships just as much as a key goal or huge save.  

It's actually in my best interests to not have fow/fol scored lol, my guys suck in their percentages.  I do tend to agree we should consolidate it into one stat FOW-C, add PPP and see if any of the other scoring cat's gain support, which would add some power to those wingers

Absolutely, I'm not understating the importance of faceoffs to the code. Or for that matter saying Bergeron isn't a great player, he is, he's just not the 2nd best skater in the league IMO.

I do feel like you've raised a really good idea, FOW/FOL locked for C is better than having it across the board, personally I'd still rather not have it as a stat. I'm not going to cry about it, just not a huge fan of the idea .



 

[Deleted]

Understood, good discussion smash! I think if we add in a few core stats the values will balance.

[JetsGM (Jacob)]

Thanks for the feedback Nashville and Dalls, so far looks like we'll be adding PPP as an additional stat, can definitely switch FOW/FOL to C only, which will remove negatives from the wingers and rebalance values a bit. All other stats will need a bit more love if we're going to consider adding them in.

[JetsGM (Jacob)]

FYI, this will be locked Sunday night so that I can re-calculate any new stats on Monday to provide the dispersal draft lottery order.

Any new stats being introduced will need league majority approval (11 votes). Any stats below that will not be added for this season, but we will re-introduce next offseason (where they can be added if there's a majority vote).

[Deleted]

I added a votes for PIMs, Short handed goals and PPP.

I also would like to add an idea for a category that wasn't included in the Poll: Shorthanded Time on Ice

I think its really important in any dynasty leaague to have stats that value primarily defensive oriented players (regardless of position) because there are so many of them playing key roles in the real NHL. I think its importanmt that the Jeff Petry's, Travis Hamonics', Chris Tanev's and Anton Stralman's of the league have significant fantasy value. They play huge minutes and get big salaries for their defensive play and ability to kill penalties. If we don't do this, the scoring categories in this league are so heavily offensively skewed that these players will have little or no value and go largely un-owned despite having huge real value in the league.

Cheers

John (FloridaGM)

[JetsGM (Jacob)]

That's a really cool suggestion John. I just checked in Fantrax though and unfortunately that's a Premium feature, so the only way to do that is if everyone chipped in so we have a Premium league.

Don't think we'll get that set up this season, can definitely be discussed next season!

[Deleted]

I thought we were going to be a premium set-up in Fantrax, if not then we absolutely should be. If we spread it over the twenty or so teams then its just a couple of bucks per person, no big deal. Plus, from my experience, if people aren't willing to pay a few extra bucks for a premium Fantrax set-up, they are not likely to stick around.

[Devils GM(Colin)]

I agree that PIM are not a good stat category. The only time they should be counted is if you're trying to include enforcers, but giving a guy bonus points for charging/elbowing guys plus those misconducts really skew the stat system.

I'm neutral on PPP, but I think SHP are the hardest points to get during the year and should be added, as well as GWGs.

I voted for all 3 to be added.

[JetsGM (Jacob)]

Sept 2, 2016 15:40:24 GMT -5 Devils GM(Colin) said:

I agree that PIM are not a good stat category. The only time they should be counted is if you're trying to include enforcers, but giving a guy bonus points for charging/elbowing guys plus those misconducts really skew the stat system.

I'm neutral on PPP, but I think SHP are the hardest points to get during the year and should be added, as well as GWGs.

I voted for all 3 to be added.

Personally not a fan of GWG just because they are either very random or just add more value to goal scorers who already get 0.5 points extra over an assist. OTGWG is something I wanted, but it's a Premium stat once again so can't use it right now.

Thanks for voting

[Deleted]

The short-handed ice time is a cool stat. I'd be willing to throw in $4 a year for premium+we'd then be able to track and trade draft picks on fantrax.

Not a fan of pims,gwg, or +-.

I think the current stats are good tho i actually wouldn't mind goals and assists getting a little more weight. Right now a player getting 240 hits is equal to scoring 16 goals. Or 300 hits is equal to 20 goals. If you asked me which was more important to have a 20 goal scorer or a 300 hit guy, I'd take the goal scorer every day of the week.

[Deleted]

i think the negative points are meh

i understand the value behind Faceoff wins, adds value to the most sought position which is the C

but faceoff loss vs win, why not just focus on wins?

Also Shots vs GA negative should be replaced with S% & GAA

but it's hard to agree of course...

recap: i'd add S% & GAA and remove faceoff loss & GA


SHP & PPP are valid stats as well, id vote that in

[Jim Rutherford/Pens GM]

Sept 2, 2016 19:12:47 GMT -5 @plug1 said:

I think the current stats are good tho i actually wouldn't mind goals and assists getting a little more weight. Right now a player getting 240 hits is equal to scoring 16 goals. Or 300 hits is equal to 20 goals. If you asked me which was more important to have a 20 goal scorer or a 300 hit guy, I'd take the goal scorer every day of the week.

I completely agree with this. Someone scoring 16-20 goals is much more important than a 200-300 hit guy. Maybe increase the weight of goals and assists or decrease the weight of hits.

I voted for PPP and am on the fence for SHP. I think PPP have real value, but I can see why people would dislike them.

Is there a DEF category in fantrax? I'd vote for that.

[JetsGM (Jacob)]

Lots of good discussion here! My thoughts:

For hits discussion, I understand the point on hits, but that's only if you're thinking that someone who scores goals won't rack up hits and vice versa. Top hit guy in the league (Martin) chipped in 10 goals last season as well, and is still less valuable than most 20 goal scorers if you look at FPPG in Fantrax. Looking at real life UFA this year, there are definitely some GMs that value a guy who plays a physical game over a guy who will score 15 goals.

Also, with it having league majority, PPP are being added so that will give even further boost to scorers versus hit guys. SHP will be a 2nd boost as well if it gets to 11.

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For the SV% and GAA argument, could consider it, I really don't mind the negatives though, and SV% and GAA requires setting up ranges based on the #s, which complicates scoring quite a bit and is a possible deterrent for someone joining the league. Want this league to be open to all ranges of fantasy GMs, not only advanced.

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Would need to rework faceoff win values (down to a very small integer) if I removed FOL. Once again, the negatives don't bother me, and think Cs who are bad at faceoffs should see slightly negative value, as they are potentially costing their teams games by losing a key face off.

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DEF stat? Don't see it in fantrax, what is the stat generated from?

[Deleted]

sure Comish no worries

i like the league as is

just saying that the most traditional stat to evaluate a goalie is S% + GAA but i understand if it's trouble or a possible deterrent

SHP should be definitely added since it does give a stat value to the PK

can't wait to start the season !!!